Editing User talk:Zippy

== Images ==

Glad to see you're able to edit now. I wanted to make you aware that you added [[:File:Humansprev.png]] to the [[v0.34:Human]] page, which is from an older DF version. You'll usually want to make sure to edit the newest one (currently "DF2014"), but feel free to edit older ones too, of course.

Also - are these images you created? The "some website" that was selected for the license in [[:File:Humansprev.png]], [[:File:Dragonprev.png]], and [[:File:Elf_preview.jpg]] concerns me a bit. If you made these images yourself, that's fine, but otherwise, providing attribution helps avoid issues.

If you want to use images that are on [https://commons.wikimedia.org/ WikiMedia Commons], then you actually don't have to upload them to this wiki to use them (in fact, please don't, because there's no point in us rehosting them). I'm not seeing your recent images on there, though, so that's more of a note for future reference.
&mdash;[[User:Lethosor|<span style="color:#074">Lethosor</span>]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|<span style="color:#092">talk</span>]]) 20:46, 2 June 2019 (UTC)
:Do I have your permission to spice up some of the templates of tables? I could make some look better and "cleaner" than they do now. - [[User:Zippy|Zippy]] ([[User talk:Zippy|talk]]) 15:28, 3 June 2019 (UTC)
::Which tables are you thinking of? IMO consistency is good, but some are likely using an older style. As for changing the default look of the wiki, I haven't put much thought into that. The upcoming upgrade does look ''slightly'' different, and you can see an example [https://www.catsplode.com/index.php/DF2014:Cat here], but that's mostly just some font changes in the newer Mediawiki version. If you know CSS, you can test out your own changes at [[Special:Mypage/common.css]] if you like. &mdash;[[User:Lethosor|<span style="color:#074">Lethosor</span>]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|<span style="color:#092">talk</span>]]) 01:45, 6 June 2019 (UTC)
:::Sorry but I'm not seeing much of a difference of that cat page. - [[User:Zippy|Zippy]] ([[User talk:Zippy|talk]]) 10:18, 6 June 2019 (UTC)

== Reuploading images ==

You mentioned an issue with reuploading images [[User_talk:Lethosor#Creature_font|here]]. I finally got around to testing this, and uploading something different on [[:File:Strangechasm.PNG]] worked for me. How big was the image you were trying to upload? Does it work now? &mdash;[[User:Lethosor|<span style="color:#074">Lethosor</span>]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|<span style="color:#092">talk</span>]]) 00:46, 9 July 2019 (UTC)
:Yeah, file re-uploading works now. So far. I also finally fixed the creature list by making the "Courier New" font the "priority font". Does the list look okay to you? If I broke something, I'll gladly change it all back. You can also revert whatever change *you* made, if you want. -- [[User:Zippy|Zippy]] ([[User talk:Zippy|talk]]) 03:35, 9 July 2019 (UTC)
::Weird, I'm pretty sure we didn't change anything, but glad it works now. The creature table looks fine to me too - thanks for handling that. &mdash;[[User:Lethosor|<span style="color:#074">Lethosor</span>]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|<span style="color:#092">talk</span>]]) 22:47, 9 July 2019 (UTC)
:::Are you comfortable changing the main CSS so the links appear as different colors? I changed my personal CSS page to make them look brown, and they look waaaayy better that way. -- [[User:Zippy|Zippy]] ([[User talk:Zippy|talk]]) 05:27, 14 July 2019 (UTC)
::::I'd say no, because that's a personal preference (they could also be confused for redlinks, and Mediawiki displays stub links as a brownish color when configured in [[Special:Preferences#mw-prefsection-rendering]]). That's why Mediawiki lets you have user-specific styles, though. &mdash;[[User:Lethosor|<span style="color:#074">Lethosor</span>]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|<span style="color:#092">talk</span>]]) 14:50, 14 July 2019 (UTC)
:::::The idea isn't just about me. I bring this up because right now, the wiki looks super generic. At least color wise. -- [[User:Zippy|Zippy]] ([[User talk:Zippy|talk]]) 08:01, 15 July 2019 (UTC)
::::::That's not a bad thing, though. Blue links are a convention, not just specific to Mediawiki, and we don't want to confuse or distract people from the content too much. I do like what you did with the navboxes like {{tl|DF2014 materials}} and {{tl|DF2014 world}}, by the way. &mdash;[[User:Lethosor|<span style="color:#074">Lethosor</span>]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|<span style="color:#092">talk</span>]]) 00:10, 17 July 2019 (UTC)
:::::::Are you comfortable changing the links to a different type of blue for originality? Also, this wiki keeps signing me in and out at random times, is that going on for you too? -- [[User:Zippy|Zippy]] ([[User talk:Zippy|talk]]) 06:49, 17 July 2019 (UTC)
::::::::No, although I used to have issues when I was switching between HTTP and HTTPS versions of pages, since logging in on https://dwarffortresswiki.org doesn't log you in on http://dwarffortresswiki.org and vice versa. Can you check both of those links, or take note of the protocol when you see the issue again and see if it has changed? &mdash;[[User:Lethosor|<span style="color:#074">Lethosor</span>]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|<span style="color:#092">talk</span>]]) 01:29, 18 July 2019 (UTC)
:::::::::The "s" link logs me in just fine and the non-s one logs me out. The site seems to be fine with the "s" link. I know you might care about this but... can you give me CSS style a try? The default wiki looks so horribly boring, and this wiki is for one of the greatest games of all time, so even slightly changing link colors would be a plus. This wiki doesn't deserve mega-boring default colors. -- [[User:Zippy|Zippy]] ([[User talk:Zippy|talk]]) 12:26, 20 July 2019 (UTC)

== Templates ==
Regarding the check marks you added to some pages like [[DF2014:Wetland]] - those are cool, but that's really something that should use a template, so I've moved it over to {{tl|check}}. Templates are preferable for consistency and maintainability - if we ever have to change the color or the symbol for some reason, making sure the change gets made in thousands of places is way more effort than changing it in one place. It is possible to get carried away with templates (Wikipedia's [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template:Tick tick template] has at least 10 alternatives - let's stick with one here), but for something like this, please don't hesitate to make a template. &mdash;[[User:Lethosor|<span style="color:#074">Lethosor</span>]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|<span style="color:#092">talk</span>]]) 00:10, 17 July 2019 (UTC)
:I don't know if you noticed, but I fixed up some of the license templates for the images. I want to do the same for the first four license selections but they come up as "👍 Uploaded with permission from the creator to use only for non-commercial and/or educational purposes."... I don't know how to edit that, could you help me out there? -- [[User:Zippy|Zippy]] ([[User talk:Zippy|talk]]) 04:21, 21 October 2019 (UTC)
::Sorry for the delay - something separate like this is fine to post on my talk page. Anyway, since it's been a while, can you link me to one of those images so I can see what's going on? &mdash;[[User:Lethosor|<span style="color:#074">Lethosor</span>]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|<span style="color:#092">talk</span>]]) 04:24, 11 December 2019 (UTC)
:::If you pick certain licenses for uploaded images, selecting some lead to broken things like "{{subst:something license}}" instead of properly showing something. --[[User:Zippy|Zippy]] ([[User talk:Zippy|talk]]) 06:41, 11 December 2019 (UTC)
::::Understood, but can you link to one that's broken? I would prefer not to upload images to test out every license. &mdash;[[User:Lethosor|<span style="color:#074">Lethosor</span>]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|<span style="color:#092">talk</span>]]) 22:32, 11 December 2019 (UTC)
::::Ok, I think I understand what the issue was now. [https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Help:Substitution "subst:"] is a special prefix for templates that causes their contents to be pasted in when the page that includes them is saved (which means that template updates won't affect past inclusions of the template). We don't really use it much on this wiki - {{tl|unsigned}} is about the only example I can think of. [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Template:No_license_from_license_selector&action=edit Wikipedia] uses subst for these because they want the date when the template was first included to be pasted into the page (which is also what {{tl|unsigned}} does), but I don't think we care about that for these license templates. Anyway, I [https://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=MediaWiki:Licenses&diff=249061&oldid=183947 removed subst], so new images should use the templates corresponding to whatever is before the first ``|`` character (e.g. [[Template:No license from license selector]]). Unfortunately, there may not be a way to force pages that already used subst, like [[:File:Grasshopper Man with Scroll.jpg]], to update. &mdash;[[User:Lethosor|<span style="color:#074">Lethosor</span>]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|<span style="color:#092">talk</span>]]) 22:42, 11 December 2019 (UTC)

== How to put this... ==
...not really looking for it per se, but nevertheless... *thumbsup* [http://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=Main_Page&curid=1&diff=246056&oldid=246054 nice edit]? [[User:Silverwing235|Silverwing235]] ([[User talk:Silverwing235|talk]]) 18:16, 26 July 2019 (UTC)

IMHO, this is finally [https://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=Main_Page&curid=1&diff=249830&oldid=249829 workable] after a year or so lying fallow....good work, anyway. [[User:Silverwing235|Silverwing235]] ([[User talk:Silverwing235|talk]]) 17:43, 19 January 2020 (UTC)

== Creepy Crawler pic ==

I would assume from the description it's more like a starfish made of fingers than a spider. Sorry for leaving this here but it wouldn't let me edit the article's talk page. --[[Special:Contributions/35.191.8.96|35.191.8.96]] 07:56, 1 March 2020 (UTC)
:Yeah, I noticed that an hour after I posted it. Meh, I'll just redraw it. [[User:Zippy|Zippy]] ([[User talk:Zippy|talk]]) 19:56, 1 March 2020 (UTC)

== Copyright issues with images ==

Hi,

there is an ongoing discussion about images and copyright infringement at [[Dwarf_Fortress_Wiki_talk:Copyrights#Images_and_copyright_infringement]]. You have uploaded many files with copyright issues, so could you please take a look at the discussion and explain your point of view? It would be very helpful if you could tell where you have got the images from. [[User:Tanamoril|Tanamoril]] ([[User talk:Tanamoril|talk]]) 08:16, 16 November 2021 (UTC)
:I know I already posted this in the other talk page, but a lot of the images I got were either posted on Reddit (where I asked the creators directly if I could use their stuff, and they said yes, as long as I credit them) or from DeviantArt, Pinterest or Instragram, which had the Creative License right there on the page. -- [[User:Zippy|Zippy]] ([[User talk:Zippy|talk]]) 01:23, 21 November 2021 (UTC)

== Copyright issues, again ==

Hi,

the photo you recently uploaded, [[:File:Seeds preview.jpg]], seems to be a copyright violation. You say that it "is public domain from gardentech.com". You took the image [https://www.gardentech.com/blog/how-to-guides/how-to-start-a-vegetable-garden from this article], right? I am genuinely curious: how did you arrive to the conclusion that the image is public domain? On that article, there is no mention of public domain, or any image license for that matter, as far as I can tell. The [https://www.gardentech.com/terms Terms and Conditions] (specifically sections 1, 2, 3 and 6) of the site explicitly say that all images are protected by copyright and may not be used without a specific permission.

In fact, the image of seeds is not public domain, but [https://www.alamy.com/search/imageresults.aspx?pseudoid=%7b3010441C-FF07-4962-B893-F23C45DFF55E%7d&name=SunFlowerStudio&st=11&mode=0&comp=1 SunnyFlowerStudio's] photo sold on [https://www.alamy.com/hands-planting-the-seeds-into-the-dirt-image235850598.html Alamy].

Gardentech has a good terms and conditions page in terms of copyright: it is very clear in that it doesn't allow the reuse of its images. However, I want to make something clear: by default, all art, including photos, is protected by copyright. That means that if you find an image on a website, and the site in questions does not in any way tell you whether you can use its images in DFwiki, you are not allowed to use the images. Only a clear permission to use the image in public, non-commercial projects or DFwiki specifically mean that you are allowed to upload the image to this wiki. For a good example of a site that actually features public domain images, look at [https://visualsonline.cancer.gov/details.cfm?imageid=9693 National Cancer Institute Visuals Online]. The "Reuse restrictions" at the bottom of the image info plainly tells that the image is public domain.

I know you have put a lot of effort into adding images to this wiki, but I gently recommend you to cease uploading photos until you have internalised how image copyrights work on the Internet.
[[File:India - Varanasi green peas - 2714.jpg|thumb|274px|Some seeds are edible, either raw or cooked.]] If you want to continue illustrating DFwiki with photos, I suggest you try using images from Wikimedia Commons. Files on Wikimedia Commons are always licensed so that they can be used on this wiki as well. When using commons images, you don't need to upload the images on this wiki: simply typing <code><nowiki>[[File:India - Varanasi green peas - 2714.jpg|thumb|274px|Some seeds are edible, either raw or cooked.]]</nowiki></code> shows the image on right, even though the image has never been uploaded to DFwiki, the file being in [https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:India_-_Varanasi_green_peas_-_2714.jpg Commons.]  [[User:Tanamoril|Tanamoril]] ([[User talk:Tanamoril|talk]]) 17:04, 10 February 2022 (UTC)
:I removed the seeds image. I will now use a specialized search for images that do not have a copyright on them. I'm probably gonna have to draw everything myself. -- [[User:Zippy|Zippy]] ([[User talk:Zippy|talk]]) 05:25, 11 February 2022 (UTC)


'''Comment''': Finding a perfect image can be hard, finding one with a permission to use is nigh impossible ;) though you did great job with your recent find on [[DF2014:Night_creature]]. 

In my experience, if we can use an image its explicitly stated so, and there are few sources that host a large variety of those that suit our purpose. As for specialized searches, I had poor experience with google image search engine with user rights setting, I find it better to limit search to specific dedicated sites for example:

{| class=wikitable
| Commons || google image search: "search term site:https://commons.wikimedia.org"
|-
| DeviantArt|| google article search: "search term creative-commons site:deviantart.com/"
|}

Probably many others like [https://openclipart.org/detail/292259/caveman-frame openclipart]. As for drawing, not sure what your art style is, but [https://www.deanspencerart.com/blackwhite deanspencer] has a huge collection of filler art that might inspire you. I hope this helps. --[[User:Jan|Jan]] ([[User talk:Jan|talk]]) 11:18, 11 February 2022 (UTC)

=== Again ===
Copyright issues, again: [[:File:Infected_blue_ghoul.jpg]], [https://www.deviantart.com/scottpurdy/art/Ghoul-196557534 original]. Google search can only point the way but you still need the license to be stated explicitly. For licensing purpose, it doesn't matter if the image was posted many times on facebook or if someone tagged it as creative common (we too had a lot of content tagged like that by mistake) its the same as googling tv shows on youtube, you can find some that hasn't been removed yet, but everyone knows its pirating. --[[User:Jan|Jan]] ([[User talk:Jan|talk]]) 10:55, 12 February 2022 (UTC)
:This is starting to piss me off. Didn't one of us already ask this exact dude if we could use some of his stuff? This is confusing the hell out of me. I don't know if you knew this, but DeviantArt not only changed their layout recently, but MANY settings on license options. There were a few images on here that *I* helped airbrush years ago. Not that I'm using this as an excuse, but some of these images are absolutely plastered eeeeeverywheeeere on the net. I don't understand how we get slammed and no one else does. I'm gonna find my drawpad, my copies of Photoshop and Illustrator and doing this crap myself. I'd hope others here would do the same. -- [[User:Zippy|Zippy]] ([[User talk:Zippy|talk]]) 11:33, 12 February 2022 (UTC)
:: If you created the image, have permission from the creator, have source where they released it under a suitable license etc then state that. But there is no license for found it on google and everyone else does it. 
:: Otherwise, I whole heartedly agree that this can be frustrating, but we don't make the rules. I did suggest couple of ways above that might help you in your searches. I also hope more people will create DF art that we can use, unfortunately most aren't aware of your plight here, maybe you can take it further and create some sort of community art thread ([https://twitter.com/DwarfFortArt/status/1143933685500170240 akin to this]) where people are asked to state if they give permission to use it on the wiki. -[[User:Jan|Jan]] ([[User talk:Jan|talk]]) 13:04, 12 February 2022 (UTC)

::No, we haven't contacted ScottPurdy. When looking for art to use on this wiki, you need to put a little bit of effort into figuring out if the art is licensed under Creative Commons or something similar, unfortunately Google's filter isn't foolproof:
::* Does it seem like the image was uploaded by the artist? If the image is on DeviantArt, Artstation, an artist's blog or website, it most likely was uploaded by the original artist. If the image appears on Pinterest, a wiki, an article, or a blog which features lots of different art, it probably wasn't uploaded by the original artist. You need to find where the art was originally uploaded to see which license applies to the art.
::* Read the image description: the artist might state there how they feel about reusing the art. The description can also tell if the art is taken from somewhere else, or if the copyright holder is someone other than the artist.
::* Does the page directly state that the image has a Creative Commons license or similar? If not, don't use the art on this wiki. On DeviantArt, this is mentioned at the bottom of the image description, above the comments.
::* If you find an artwork you'd like to use on this wiki, but the license doesn't allow it, ask the artist first. Only if they give you permission, upload the art here. [[User:Tanamoril|Tanamoril]] ([[User talk:Tanamoril|talk]]) 14:31, 12 February 2022 (UTC)

Few more:
* [[:File:Cyclops_semi.png]] and [https://www.deviantart.com/ogi-g/art/Cyclops-200374804 original] - you can't google image window shop for "free" images on shady upload sites with no monitoring capabilities. Same with [[:File:Animal_train_comic.png]] and [https://picsart.com/i/sticker-mq-safari-zoo-wildlife-animal-animals-276907033001211 original].
* [[:File:Animal train comic.png]] "Was given permission" - permission by who? what sort of permission? be specific or we can't use this.
* [[:File:Dwarf beekeeper.jpg]] - Again, if it isn't explicitly said that you can use the image(specify license) then we can't use this. Just because a site didn't put up a license notice that you can find doesn't mean the material used there in is not copyrighted. Especially when this is a blog that post images from other sources. Which in this case its review of kruggsmash so at least you should specify {{tl|permission}}
* [[:File:Sheriff_dwarf.jpg]] - again doesn't matter where it was posted what license? --[[User:Jan|Jan]] ([[User talk:Jan|talk]]) 15:11, 19 February 2022 (UTC)

And again:
* [[:File:Injured dwarf.png]] great image you found, however, I find the contrast between the detailed license info here and the lack of on [[:File:Giant_bat.png]] peculiar. Do we have a permission to use this [https://www.deviantart.com/adoptables-fur-one/art/Ahool-ADOPTABLE-459011550 copyrighted] image? --[[User:Jan|Jan]] ([[User talk:Jan|talk]]) 10:29, 23 February 2022 (UTC)


Regarding [https://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=File:Werewolf_preview.png&curid=41002&diff=264205&oldid=263306 this edit] - what license was updated? &mdash;[[User:Lethosor|<span style="color:#074">Lethosor</span>]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|<span style="color:#092">talk</span>]]) 04:57, 30 June 2022 (UTC)
:I edited the wrong, sorry. -- [[User:Zippy|Zippy]] ([[User talk:Zippy|talk]]) 19:56, 30 June 2022 (UTC)

Regarding [https://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=File:Pickaxe_transparent.png&curid=40839&diff=264460&oldid=263558 this edit] - per [[User:Tanamoril/Copyright_violations]], please include attribution for those images, and not just in the edit history. &mdash;[[User:Lethosor|<span style="color:#074">Lethosor</span>]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|<span style="color:#092">talk</span>]]) 04:37, 19 July 2022 (UTC)

== New image ==

What [[:File:Armok map render.png]] adds to [[world generation]] entry? We already have a lot of in-game screenshots illustrations. Showing medium/large world, animating the process and otherwise showing parts of menus relevant to what is talked about. While this render mostly shows the Arthurs skill with Inkscape. Pretty as it is, I am not sure it should stay, or at the least its description should emphasis that it isn't in-game anything (not a fancy tileset) but done manually with Inkscape (btw we have a couple of [[Utilities]] that does that automatically) and maybe a link to 'Osmlo Ospaz' succession game if it is indeed that. --[[User:Jan|Jan]] ([[User talk:Jan|talk]]) 14:16, 14 February 2022 (UTC)

[[:File:Fishing docks.jpg]] very pretty image (personally, I love that style), however, i think it doesn't suits DF very well, there is no hint of ships\boats in-game fishing industry or otherwise, and here they are front and center plus very modern looking ones. --[[User:Jan|Jan]] ([[User talk:Jan|talk]]) 19:42, 24 February 2022 (UTC)

==  shabazik ==

Concerning this [[:File:Champ_dwarf.jpg]]. The artist, shabazik, on his page confirmed that he gave you permission to use his works. Recalling that he "[..]given permission for some non-commercial use of my works, if credited as the creator of said works". Currently the image is labelled with {{tl|Cc-by-sa-3.0}} is that license that he gave you, or was there some mixup with upload options\templates and {{tl|Permission from license selector}} is more suitable or another? --[[User:Jan|Jan]] ([[User talk:Jan|talk]]) 13:10, 15 February 2022 (UTC)
:Wouldn't either one be equally as good? -- [[User:Zippy|Zippy]] ([[User talk:Zippy|talk]]) 13:51, 15 February 2022 (UTC)
::For who? Tanamoril prefers cc3, but I don't care either way. Just trying to make sure that we aren't misrepresenting by mistake what was agreed on --[[User:Jan|Jan]] ([[User talk:Jan|talk]]) 21:18, 15 February 2022 (UTC)
:::What if another template was made to rectify this? -- [[User:Zippy|Zippy]] ([[User talk:Zippy|talk]]) 13:04, 16 February 2022 (UTC)
:::: What did he agree to? From your comment, I gather that he didn't offered it under CC3, if the same as stated above then its essentially used with permission for non-commercial use with attribution. Personally I think permission covers that, but we can also add it as free text or as special template (if common enough). I don't know anymore than that user:Tanamoril‎ is the copyright master, I just wanted to figure if we can use more of his fantastic work. --[[User:Jan|Jan]] ([[User talk:Jan|talk]]) 19:05, 16 February 2022 (UTC)

== Why can't we have an accurate picture of the Green Devourer? ==

There's no reason not to have more images of a species. There's no copyright issues, and if clarity is the issue then you should look into removing the innacurate depiction by Quimael (but again, I'd prefer multiple pictures)

[[User:Opdagon|Opdagon]] ([[User talk:Opdagon|talk]]) 11:57, 21 August 2022 (UTC)
:I don't think you understand why your image was removed. -- [[User:Zippy|Zippy]] ([[User talk:Zippy|talk]]) 17:43, 21 August 2022 (UTC)
::Then please explain [[User:Opdagon|Opdagon]] ([[User talk:Opdagon|talk]]) 21:13, 27 August 2022 (UTC)
:::Don't take this the wrong way, but the images you made are... not exactly the most... detailed, let's say. All the other images on other pages range from beautiful pieces of art that could almost be put in a museum to more simple drawings, but still have some significant detail to them - including the crayon drawings by the creators of the game. I'm in no way pulling any rank when I say that, because even some of the ''my'' drawings were not at Picasso level, as I had to redraw/improve them in some way. -- [[User:Zippy|Zippy]] ([[User talk:Zippy|talk]]) 21:34, 27 August 2022 (UTC)
::::I feel like an image is better having a few accurate details than a load of incorrect ones [[User:Opdagon|Opdagon]] ([[User talk:Opdagon|talk]]) 20:29, 1 September 2022 (UTC)
:::::Yeeeaaahhhh... This is about more than the accuracy of the image. The one you posted looks like it was made in Microsoft Paint in under a minute. I don't mean that as a personal attack, as I'm just speaking on that one image. At least add some attractive details is what I'm driving at. -- [[User:Zippy|Zippy]] ([[User talk:Zippy|talk]]) 01:57, 4 September 2022 (UTC)
@@ Line 1: / Line 1: @@
 == Images ==
 Glad to see you're able to edit now. I wanted to make you aware that you added [[:File:Humansprev.png]] to the [[v0.34:Human]] page, which is from an older DF version. You'll usually want to make sure to edit the newest one (currently "DF2014"), but feel free to edit older ones too, of course.
@@ Line 6: / Line 7: @@
 If you want to use images that are on [https://commons.wikimedia.org/ WikiMedia Commons], then you actually don't have to upload them to this wiki to use them (in fact, please don't, because there's no point in us rehosting them). I'm not seeing your recent images on there, though, so that's more of a note for future reference.
 &mdash;[[User:Lethosor|<span style="color:#074">Lethosor</span>]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|<span style="color:#092">talk</span>]]) 20:46, 2 June 2019 (UTC)
-:Do I have your permission to spice up some of the templates of tables? I could make some look better and "cleaner" than they do now. - s[[User:Zippy|Zippy]] ([[User talk:Zippy|talk]]) 15:28, 3 June 2019 (UTC)
+:Do I have your permission to spice up some of the templates of tables? I could make some look better and "cleaner" than they do now. - [[User:Zippy|Zippy]] ([[User talk:Zippy|talk]]) 15:28, 3 June 2019 (UTC)
 ::Which tables are you thinking of? IMO consistency is good, but some are likely using an older style. As for changing the default look of the wiki, I haven't put much thought into that. The upcoming upgrade does look ''slightly'' different, and you can see an example [https://www.catsplode.com/index.php/DF2014:Cat here], but that's mostly just some font changes in the newer Mediawiki version. If you know CSS, you can test out your own changes at [[Special:Mypage/common.css]] if you like. &mdash;[[User:Lethosor|<span style="color:#074">Lethosor</span>]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|<span style="color:#092">talk</span>]]) 01:45, 6 June 2019 (UTC)
 :::Sorry but I'm not seeing much of a difference of that cat page. - [[User:Zippy|Zippy]] ([[User talk:Zippy|talk]]) 10:18, 6 June 2019 (UTC)
-Apologies if this isn't the correct place to write you about this, but you mentioned that the images I'm adding are not 'pixel perfect' but I'm not sure how to improve them. Dwarf Fortress doesn't like Steam or Nvidea overlays (for me anyways) so the only ways I can consistently screenshot is to use the windows Snip & Sketch tool or to take a full screen screenshot with Print Screen. I have tried both methods and the screenshots come out the same quality each time; as far as I can tell they are not blurrier than the game itself sometimes appears on higher resolutions (all of my screenshots were taken in 2k). - [[User:Jakemf|Jakemf]] ([[User talk:Jakemf|talk]]) 12:31, 12 December 2022 (EST)
-After going through the game again in both windowed and full screen, with as many different screenshotting programs as I am willing to try, I still have the 'blur' you are referring to when I zoom in on my screenshot, however I believe this is because you are zooming in on the screenshot farther than you can zoom in in-game, at which point the pixel art stops 'blending' the blur together (if that makes any sort of sense). If you do not think this is the case, could you supply a screenshot of one of the metal floors that does not have the same blur when zoomed in that far? - [[User:Jakemf|Jakemf]] ([[User talk:Jakemf|talk]]) 2:23, 12 December 2022 (EST)
 == Reuploading images ==
@@ Line 130: / Line 127: @@
 ::::I feel like an image is better having a few accurate details than a load of incorrect ones [[User:Opdagon|Opdagon]] ([[User talk:Opdagon|talk]]) 20:29, 1 September 2022 (UTC)
 :::::Yeeeaaahhhh... This is about more than the accuracy of the image. The one you posted looks like it was made in Microsoft Paint in under a minute. I don't mean that as a personal attack, as I'm just speaking on that one image. At least add some attractive details is what I'm driving at. -- [[User:Zippy|Zippy]] ([[User talk:Zippy|talk]]) 01:57, 4 September 2022 (UTC)
-::::::This is a wiki, not an art gallery. A bad drawing of a green devourer is much more important to have than a good drawing that gets everything wrong. And if it's really that important why don't ''you'' make a better accurate drawing? [[User:Opdagon|Opdagon]] ([[User talk:Opdagon|talk]]) 19:44, 6 September 2022 (UTC)
-:::::::Wiki or not, images should have at least a fraction of visual appeal to them. The entire point of wiki pages are - assuming there's enough info anyway - to make a page look as presentable as possible, and images should fall into that as well. Seeing as that I'm currently redrawing and replacing as many images here as I can, replacing your image is not exactly number one on my list right now. I'm starting to get the feeling that you're offended. Also, not every creature image here is perfectly accurate, including ones not posted by me. Accuracy or not, something should always be presentable. A Microsoft Paint image that's just an outline and some fill tool clicks is not presentable. A page would probably look better without an image at all than that. -- [[User:Zippy|Zippy]] ([[User talk:Zippy|talk]]) 19:03, 7 September 2022 (UTC)
-:::::::: "assuming there's enough info anyway" What if there isn't? What if all the details of a creature's body are presented only in the form of a baroque chunk of code hidden at the base of the page? You're also dismissing all the effort that went into the image beyond simply drawing it: The research of comparing real animals to their raws, working out what sort of animal the Devourer is, justifying every organ and joint on its body to produce a creature both realistic and canonical to the game [[User:Opdagon|Opdagon]] ([[User talk:Opdagon|talk]]) 10:43, 14 September 2022 (UTC)
-:::::::::I heavily, and I mean I '''''heavily''''' believe that if you present something to the public, especially on the internet, you should give it your all. Or at least make it generally presentable. Because I'm a... relatively... "nice guy"... I won't remove anything you put up, but when I find the time, I'll show you an example of how your sea creature image should look. Once I do that, it will be up to you to replace it with mine or not. -- [[User:Zippy|Zippy]] ([[User talk:Zippy|talk]]) 10:20, 17 September 2022 (UTC)
-{{od|9}}
-There is no requirement that images on the wiki meet a certain level of artistic quality. This one could arguably be interpreted as a diagram, and I think it's fine for it to be presented as a "second, anatomical" depiction. Images uploaded by their author also have the advantage of not running into copyright issues, as several of your uploads (Zippy) have. If you want to ''improve'' the visual quality without detracting from the intent of the image, then I personally wouldn't have any issues with that, but I do have issues with removing images because you don't think they "look good enough", particularly when looking good was not the intention. &mdash;[[User:Lethosor|<span style="color:#074">Lethosor</span>]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|<span style="color:#092">talk</span>]]) 04:05, 18 September 2022 (UTC)
-== copyright issues again ==
-I see you still violating copyrights and your actions are still ignored by the admins.
-: Most recent submission: https://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/File:Dingo_man.jpg
-Again you seem to be google crawling on sites with shady practices. Again you have not received permission from copyright holder. Again you make up stuff.
-: (1) "may be subject to copyright" means you have no idea what the copyright status is (including whether you are allowed to use it and/or modify it)
-: (2) clearly there is watermark on the image, stating it is 'Copyrighted to Katie Hofgard 2013' which you removed.
-: (3) you submission stating this image is "Free" and "The image has no license and/or is in the public domain."
-: (4) took me 10second to find this: https://www.deviantart.com/katiehofgard/art/Elder-s-Wisdom-397661157
-It is clear you are a copyright liability and every image submission of yours should be suspect of copyright violation --[[User:Jan|Jan]] ([[User talk:Jan|talk]]) 10:47, 6 December 2022 (UTC)
-:Uuuuggghhhhh Christ... This again. I just went through all this with Lethosor. Mind you that a lot of these people took images they found themselves and slapped ''their'' watermarks on them because they made slight/moderate alterations to them.
-Some of these images are absolutely everywhere, making it impossible to find out who the true artist or license was. I've had to send countless, and I mean COUNTLESS emails around to many sites, with a lot of these places taking weeks to respond. I've even turned to using AI drawing apps for images so I don't have to bother others for their art. I've even went to uncomfortable sites to ask for things.
-I also convinced Lethosor to add a ton of extra templates to make license labeling easier, which is all over his talk page.
-'''Edit:''' Yeah, just as I suspected. The image you linked was uploaded to DeviantArt before January 24, 2014. Back then, images were not automatically claimed, and users had to openly state otherwise. Though it seems this person started to make a calender with that image. --[[User:Zippy|Zippy]] ([[User talk:Zippy|talk]]) 16:34, 6 December 2022 (UTC)
-:: Once again, '''the golden rule you need explicit disclaimer or permission from copyright holder, absence of their off means shit.'''
-:::>''Some of these images are absolutely everywhere, making it impossible to find out who the true artist or license was.''
-:: Doesn't matter; Thank you for all hardwork; see the golden rule.
-:::>''Mind you that a lot of these people took images they found themselves and slapped ''their'' watermarks on them because they made slight/moderate alterations to them.''
-:: Are you asserting that is the case here? Because it seem clear to me that you had no idea who the copyright holder was nor the copyright status of their work, and in no way in a position to state it is free.
-:::>''Yeah, just as I suspected. The image you linked was uploaded to DeviantArt before January 24, 2014. Back then, images were not automatically claimed, and users had to openly state otherwise''
-:: openly state like a big copyright watermark in the middle that you removed? Even if your rational were true, you didn't know that at the time of posting when you claiming the work was free.
-:: I don't know what you talked about with Lethosor. I know that Tanamoril spent a lot of time on this with you and I will let the resident admin worry/ignore all these long term violations that we keep hosting (who knows maybe the servers are in copyright free haven)--[[User:Jan|Jan]] ([[User talk:Jan|talk]]) 09:32, 14 December 2022 (UTC)
-:Again, https://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/File:Gigantic_panda_preview.jpg
-:If the copyrightholder (not the webmaster) "made it clear that this isn't used financially" then there is a (non commercial use) license and you can't tag it as PD. Public domain means that I can do whatever I want e.g. I can take it put my name on it, make commercial prints of it, sell them along side the original artists work in his shop and there is nothing legally he can do about it. --[[User:Jan|Jan]] ([[User talk:Jan|talk]]) 09:37, 14 December 2022 (UTC)
-{{od|1}}
-I mean nothing personal when I ask this, but... is English not your primary language or something? Because some of what you say has some weird, ''weird'' grammar that makes you hard to follow.
-You keep mentioning the watermark that I removed in that one image like a "gotcha!" moment. Damn right I removed that watermark, I thought it was some desktop background image (which is how that site presented it, according to that site.) You found the image on DeviantArt, but I asked the guy on Reddit if he cared about his work being used, and he didn't care (which would be a bit late and pointless for that anyway since it's all over the place). If you had any idea of the effort I put in and the amount of emails and DM's I send to the authors of these images (or the webmasters if the source is not clear), you wouldn't be typing so aggressively about this.
-I asked a lot of these artists if I could use their work, since it's already on Pinterest/Tumblr/desktop background sites/etc and about 93% of them say they don't give a shit. A lot of these images are on so many other sites and wikis that it almost physically hurts trying to comprehend it. Let me paint a picture here, imagine something you made is ALL over the internet, on like maybe 50-100 sites... one of them being the Dwarf Fortress Wiki. Who's gonna go, "By golly! My image is on quite literally half of the entire internet, but out of ALL those sites, it being on Dwarf Fortress Wiki is what steam my clams!! All those other sites are one thing, but hot dog! That ONE site is the bad one! >=("
-<span style="color:grey">"If the copyrightholder (not the webmaster) "made it clear that this isn't used financially" then there is a (non commercial use) license and you can't tag it as PD. Public domain means that I can do whatever I want e.g. I can take it put my name on it, make commercial prints of it, sell them along side the original artists work in his shop and there is nothing legally he can do about it."</span>
-Fair enough, then I can change it to the "non-commercial" template. Don't get my words wrong, I'm not saying "some images are at more than one place so I can take what I want", but if you saw the replies I get about how nonchalant and accepting they are of their work being used here, it would be enough to write a very thick book. Moving on. Any time you want to report me to Lethosor or whatever, please feel free. In fact, I can do it for you.
-No matter what the outcome is - whether I'm allowed to post preview pictures here or not... I'll be the victor. If I can still post images, great. If I can't... great. The Steam version has its own visuals anyway, almost negating the need for preview images. Using image search on Google also randomizes the site tickets, not always showing the image's exact source on the first search.
-<span style="color:grey">"the golden rule you need explicit disclaimer or permission from copyright holder, absence of their off means shit."</span>
-And if it doesn't exist? --[[User:Zippy|Zippy]] ([[User talk:Zippy|talk]]) 12:50, 15 December 2022 (UTC)
-:Then you can't use it.
-:I doubt English is the issue here, Tanamoril already explained all of this in fine English to anyone willing to listen.  Furthermore he spent months on a [[:User:Tanamoril/Copyright violations|project]] to address mostly your notions about copyright.  Fast forward half a year, I come back and the first thing I see on recent changes is that you still at it. Worse instead of addressing it you gave me the same excuses and ignored it.
-:Anyway, I give up, this is the domain of admin responsibility. --[[User:Jan|Jan]] ([[User talk:Jan|talk]]) 15:32, 15 December 2022 (UTC)
-== cool images ==
-Could be nice if you can acquire permission for this [https://www.reddit.com/r/dwarffortress/comments/zdgw1r/i_feel_like_a_kid_on_christmas_eve_waiting_for/ image by josh mckelvey] - I think it is fantastic image, that use a simple and accurate depiction that connects the past with present --[[User:Jan|Jan]] ([[User talk:Jan|talk]]) 11:10, 6 December 2022 (UTC)
-:I asked the guy just now, and he responded to me within minutes that it's fine. Proof of that is [https://www.reddit.com/r/dwarffortress/comments/zdgw1r/comment/j163dth/?utm_source=reddit&utm_medium=web2x&context=3 here]. --[[User:Zippy|Zippy]] ([[User talk:Zippy|talk]]) 23:11, 21 December 2022 (UTC)
-::Thanks! --[[User:Jan|Jan]] ([[User talk:Jan|talk]]) 09:59, 22 December 2022 (UTC)
-Just got reminded of [https://www.reddit.com/r/dwarffortress/comments/nkofam/a_typical_elven_caravan_this_drawing_is_inspired/ this amazing old fanart], if you crossed path with artist it could be nice. --[[User:Jan|Jan]] ([[User talk:Jan|talk]]) 22:35, 21 December 2022 (UTC)
-== adding raw  ==
-I think you should hold on adding raws. --[[User:Jan|Jan]] ([[User talk:Jan|talk]]) 17:32, 22 December 2022 (UTC)
-:I was only adding a few to test a template. --[[User:Zippy|Zippy]] ([[User talk:Zippy|talk]]) 17:34, 22 December 2022 (UTC)
-:: alright, just keep in mind that most game raw files are handled by DFRawFunctions extension (You can check this by looking at the previous version namespace [https://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=DF2014:Cow/raw&action=edit for example].) And  Lethosor [[Dwarf_Fortress_Wiki_talk:Versions#v50_migration|already working on it]]: "This will be addressed with an upgrade to the DFRawFunctions extension." Once done he will unleash a bot that will trump everything. Just a heads up to save you some time, otherwise go ahead and expirement--[[User:Jan|Jan]] ([[User talk:Jan|talk]]) 17:39, 22 December 2022 (UTC)
-:::Yes, please be aware that any changes you make to /raw pages will be overwritten. &mdash;[[User:Lethosor|<span style="color:#074">Lethosor</span>]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|<span style="color:#092">talk</span>]]) 04:27, 23 December 2022 (UTC)
-:::Is he also making templates that allow graphics? --[[User:Zippy|Zippy]] ([[User talk:Zippy|talk]]) 03:42, 23 December 2022 (UTC)
-::::What templates are you referring to? &mdash;[[User:Lethosor|<span style="color:#074">Lethosor</span>]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|<span style="color:#092">talk</span>]]) 04:27, 23 December 2022 (UTC)
-::Infoboxes. One that allows graphics instead of relying on colored letters at the top. --[[User:Zippy|Zippy]] ([[User talk:Zippy|talk]]) 13:21, 23 December 2022 (UTC)
-== Animal fat picture ==
-The current animal fat picture ( http://dwarffortresswiki.org/images/3/39/Animal_fat.jpg ) is a picture of a wedge of soft cheese. Not a picture of subcutaneous fat. I suggest you either revert to your previous picture or find another more relevant picture. Kindly -[[User:GlitterLich|GlitterLich]] ([[User talk:GlitterLich|talk]]) 05:19, 24 December 2022 (UTC)
-:I found the "revert" button for pictures, so I took the liberty of reverting it to the previous picture myself. -[[User:GlitterLich|GlitterLich]] ([[User talk:GlitterLich|talk]]) 10:46, 24 December 2022 (UTC)
-::The place I found that picture said it was food made from a large amount of animal fat, so I thought that would fit. Also, you're a member on this wiki just as much as I am. Though you just reverted the image, you can upload better images at any time. --[[User:Zippy|Zippy]] ([[User talk:Zippy|talk]]) 17:14, 24 December 2022 (UTC)
-== Classic graphics ==
-Per [[Dwarf_Fortress_Wiki:Versions#Premium.2FClassic]], please don't remove classic graphics as you did on [[Status icon]] - they are still relevant for a current version of the game (as well as if classic graphics are turned on in premium builds). I've readded some as an example of an approach that can apply to both versions. &mdash;[[User:Lethosor|<span style="color:#074">Lethosor</span>]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|<span style="color:#092">talk</span>]]) 05:53, 3 January 2023 (UTC)
-:That's what I wanted to do, but I wasn't quite finished with the page, and I couldn't find the right template. --[[User:Zippy|Zippy]] ([[User talk:Zippy|talk]]) 05:54, 3 January 2023 (UTC)
-::I just used something from [[DF Talk:Versions]]. We can certainly make it look nicer later, but I think it does the job adequately for now. &mdash;[[User:Lethosor|<span style="color:#074">Lethosor</span>]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|<span style="color:#092">talk</span>]]) 06:03, 3 January 2023 (UTC)
-:::Might as well slip this question in since I "have you"... or... you "have me". Is the wiki ever gonna undergo a CSS color overhaul? --[[User:Zippy|Zippy]] ([[User talk:Zippy|talk]]) 06:32, 3 January 2023 (UTC)
-::::We have several skins available at [[Special:Preferences]] now, if you're interested. Other than that, I don't have plans to develop a custom skin myself. &mdash;[[User:Lethosor|<span style="color:#074">Lethosor</span>]] ([[User talk:Lethosor|<span style="color:#092">talk</span>]]) 06:34, 3 January 2023 (UTC)
-:::::Are you gonna make updated templates for the buildings/workshops/furnaces, or are you leaving that to us? --[[User:Zippy|Zippy]] ([[User talk:Zippy|talk]]) 06:43, 3 January 2023 (UTC)
-== Stress Comic ==
-Hello Zippy.  You used my Comic for stress that I posted roughly 2-3 years ago, I found this by searching stress in google and seeing my comic come up as...  A wiki link?  Anyway.  That make me profoundly happy that someone enjoyed it enough to post it here.  So thank you for that.  The copyright for this image is uh...  Public Domain.  Thanks for posting it.  -Odieman
-== Labors in v50 ==
-Hey just noticed you removed the labor categories on Ashery, I'm not sure I totally agree with that. I tend to use a lot of custom labor categories and it's helpful to see the labors required be listed on the wiki for each task. The discord sees quite a few people confused about why "dwarf X isn't doing Y even though is profession X". Labor requirements should still be listed IMO. [[User:Vallode|Vallode]] ([[User talk:Vallode|talk]]) 09:53, 3 January 2023 (UTC)
-:I'll undo the edit, but the reason I did that is because v50 doesn't require dwarves to have the skill enabled to do certain jobs anymore. In the "labors" tab, you can use the "anyone does this" option, which will make almost ALL dwarves do something if they're not busy with something else. --[[User:Zippy|Zippy]] ([[User talk:Zippy|talk]]) 09:59, 3 January 2023 (UTC)
-::Yeah I can see the reasoning, the only problem is that as soon as you click on someone to do something specific the game switches to "only selected do this" automatically. I've ran into problems before where I quickly wanted to force someone to only stick to say Glassmaking and then my glass industry halted until I switched it back to "everybody does this"... Think it's fine if the wiki is a bit _verbose_ about this kind of stuff. Cheers for reverting. [[User:Vallode|Vallode]] ([[User talk:Vallode|talk]]) 10:04, 3 January 2023 (UTC)
-== Creature image template ==
-Thanks for uploading so many sprites. I did a pass on the creature table template so that it looks for [[<name>_sprite.png]] if a graphic isn't supplied, so a graphics= parameter doesn't need to be added everywhere. Looks like it works fine so far on [[Vermin]] but the wiki can't handle rendering the [[Creature]] table, so I reverted back. I think it'd be worth doing the same for the creaturelookup template on the creature page, since we're only rendering one image there. So you don't need to add the image manually to each page where the graphic is just x_sprite.png. [[User:OddballJoe|OddballJoe]] ([[User talk:OddballJoe|talk]]) 01:16, 22 January 2023 (UTC)
-: It doesn't handle hyphens properly, could be fixed but it might increase the load. But there's only a handful of hyphenated animals to deal with. [[User:OddballJoe|OddballJoe]] ([[User talk:OddballJoe|talk]]) 01:18, 22 January 2023 (UTC)
-::You. Are. A. Hero. The work you have saved me, man... You have NO idea. I could get this done in less than a day or two now. Don't worry about hyphens, I never used them in filenames. I replace them with underscores. --[[User:Zippy|Zippy]] ([[User talk:Zippy|talk]]) 03:42, 23 January 2023 (UTC)
-::: I fixed the hyphens (to autoreplace them with underscores) and optimized the template to work on the Creature page. It looks like you're still updating image links on all the individual creature pages; you really don't need to worry about that, I can set it up to find them automatically the same way I did on the creature page. [[User:OddballJoe|OddballJoe]] ([[User talk:OddballJoe|talk]]) 06:18, 23 January 2023 (UTC)
-::::That sounds promising, but the individual creature pages don't use the exact same filename suffixes. Sometimes it's a singular sprite, sometimes the filenames ends with "sprite'''s'''" when the baby sprite is included and sometimes (if the creature has different sprites based on gender), the file ends with "_anim.gif". Or "_sprite'''s'''_anim.gif" if it has both a baby ''and'' gender differences. --[[User:Zippy|Zippy]] ([[User talk:Zippy|talk]]) 06:38, 23 January 2023 (UTC)